Entheogenic Healing Journey for Trauma

Disclaimer: This episode shares a very sensitive traumatic human experience and may be triggering to some individuals.  If you are needing to overcome an addiction, the following information may be helpful, but in no way is a form of treatment and is only a source of guidance, not a recommendation of treatment.

Many of us are struggling with a harmful addiction of some sort or have a loved one with an addiction.  Could plant medicine help?  Curiousity lives here...

Psychedelic or consciousness-expanding plants and their drug counter-parts have been vastly studied by Western scientific researchers for many years now as adjuncts to psychotherapy.  

Plant medicine containing entheogenic properties has become more widespread beyond being used in traditional ceremonial context for healing and spiritual practice.  Still curious?

This very special episode explores some of these entheogen medicines from real authentic experiences.  Releasing trapped trauma in the body through ancient wisdom of spirit plants and how they can assist in addiction.  Special episode focused on one healing journey through bulimia with entheogen plant medicine.

Learn more about Ayahuasca, Iboga, Cannabis & what is Frog medicine?

https://bulimia.com/bulimia-therapy-techniques/alternative-holistic-therapy/

https://decrimnaturedc.org/list-of-entheogenic-plants-and-fungi/

https://www.sacredpachamama.org/4-day-retreats-us?https://www.sacredpachamama.org/ceremonial/path?

https://psychedelics.berkeley.edu/resources/entheogenic-rituals-shamanism-and-green-psychology/

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2023/05/425246/ibogaine-inspires-new-treatments-addiction-and-depression

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Transcript

1:07

Today we will be dipping our toes into exploring the wide world of entheogenic substances, plant medicines that contain psychedelic properties used by indigenous people around the world since the beginning of time to help heal the body. Hello and welcome to today's beautiful special episode that I am very excited about. I have a guest today and I've been wanting to have my greatest friend here, Nicole, as a guest of mine because she is somebody very special to me and has been on her healing journey for as long as I have. We have different healing journeys, different kinds of trauma from our childhood, and we are the exact, pretty much the same age. We are both born in 1973. So we are feeling like we're going into our wise women phase of life, just kind of hit menopause and we are really feeling like we want to share more and what better way to share about holistic healing, having journeys with plant medicine and how that has helped. And so Nicole is somebody that I met over 20 years ago in a small town in northern California that we have clicked right away and have remained friends for many, many years. And she, at that time, was just moving to California and was ready to start. I mean, that's pretty much what I get is what your intention was because right when you moved there, it was like you landed in a healing sanctuary per se, right? Yes. And it was like that was your plan. You were like, oh, this spot looks perfect. And went and moved up into the hills, into this beautiful land that was on the Yuba River and started your healing journey, which I know has been quite a journey for you and as it should be. And we are always constantly evolving and trying to heal. This lifetime is just quite a trip and it's quite a process and the work that we need to do here, and it's just ongoing and it's beautiful. And I'm very grateful that you're here sharing with me. Thanks for having me. Thank you. And so I'm going to let Nicole just give a brief introduction on herself, on her beautiful self, and then we will go into discussing different plant medicines and how it has helped her in her healing path. So Nicole 50, wonderful. Soon to do 50. Terrific. And starting my journey in the Sweet Sierra foothills, which was a magical landing for me as it all started in the small town where I was in Pennsylvania, having the Sierras as a reoccurring theme. The beer I was drinking after work, was it Sierra Nevada, Sierra Nevada. My day calendar was a teacher. It was Sierra Club, camping gear, Sierra design. And even when I was little naming my future daughter was Sierra Rain. So just landing in the Sierra. So just being that perfect landing spot just to start my healing journey. Kind. Of perfect. Yeah, that was. Totally. Yeah. Perfect. So that was a good intention that you had right away. Oh, right away Seems like even if you didn't know that it was intentional. It seemed very intentional. Yeah. Just landing on Eric Garner's 600 acres with all the shooting stars, the golden eagle flying above me almost every week. Yeah. Very magical spot to land and just to create the magic and just being grounding to heal. And so can you talk a little bit about where you were coming from, a small town in Pennsylvania to a small town in California, and maybe why you wanted to leave Pennsylvania? You don't need to go into a lot of detail, but just a little bit briefly of your childhood and what you were trying to maybe move away from and start over and to heal from. Right. Well, I think the biggest reason was I got into a raw vegan diet in Pennsylvania, although my only raw food friends were the four-legged critters outside who enjoyed my compost pile. Oh, I remember you telling me about that. That come in and have dinner and shared dinner with me and just being surrounded by pizza, beer and nascar and very close-minded. I mean, I just felt so alone from the very little age. Yeah, you were somebody else. Somebody else. I don't belong here. I don't belong here. And I was a teacher at the time and my students were graduating, therefore setting me free. And I, with the intention of just creating a better life as I connected with other raw foodists online and just heard about this 600 acre raw food retreat. And they needed help. And my intention was just going there to help and then taking a natural hot springs tour starting in Ojai up to British Columbia. But I just fell in love and just stayed for, actually it was 14 years I was there before moving to Marin County. And that's where we sit now. I don't know if I mentioned that. Yeah, we're sitting in a beautiful Marin County in the summer, and it is perfect summer weather here if you ask me. Kind of similar to Nevada City, but not quite as hot. And Nicole has a beautiful home here with her partner, and she has another home that she can go to in your beach that she had before she met her partner. And yeah, it's a beautiful place to be. And we're up here on a hilltop having this conversation, just the two of us today. I am having a hot flash and hot flashes come and go. So we're just going with the flow. Yes, totally. Embracing this maturity and wisdom and hot flashes. And just discovering that there's possibilities all around us and we can all heal from traumas that we have, however big or small. And for me, I was an only child and I came from my own trauma as my own childhood upbringing. But being the same age as Nicole, we resonated on some level. And just, I think maybe in part that we were on our own healing journey, and I think we were both vegan and maybe, I dunno if we were both raw fut at the time. I think maybe we were when we met. So we kind of clicked and we had other things in common with music, and we could probably go into that. But dances, dancing, yes, we totally had dancing in common. We love that. She's my favorite dancing partner. We've gone so many places and dance together. So here we are still together and talking about the evolution of a healing journey. And with plant medicine, including psychedelics, which many plant medicines are, there are many that aren't on that level of giving you that psychedelic experience, which is much deeper. It's much more just really healing in a quicker way. It may be a little harder to find or a little, some people maybe have fear around it. And it's going to be more and more common to be able to find more plant medicine as it's becoming, as cannabis did more widespread and more legal and less fear around it because it really does help people to heal much faster than just going to therapy and sitting with a counselor for many sessions, which that can be helpful. But like I say, herbs always help you to heal quicker. And this is herbal medicine, plant medicine, fungi, they're here. It's like the earth is giving you this medicine so that you can heal through whatever the fuck you need to heal from. So Nicole, can you just talk just a little bit, I know it's difficult and we don't have a lot of time today, but just a little bit of your background, your family, where you came from, and just touch on your trauma, and then we can segue into talking about the different types of plant medicine and how they've helped you. Okay. Well, you came from a small town in the East coast, very poor family. My parents were absent, my beloved nan raised three of us, my brother and my sister, myself. Not a lot of resources available. Parents were alcoholics and not present. And then my mom married my stepfather, whom we had moved in with, say, it was the house of horrors, who was not a kind man who physically, sexually and emotionally abused. Me and my sister became pregnant at a very young age and was so frightened that I was unable to share my story or to share with anyone that I was pregnant. So I carried my pregnancy all by myself, gave birth all by myself in the bathroom of my home. My sister walked into the bathroom, thank goodness she saved both of my life and my baby's life. Ended up traveling, calling the ambulance, and then it was on the scanner, the details. So then the whole town knew as I had given birth, hidden a pregnancy, gave birth all by myself, shamed by the whole town. And then after that, being abused by my stepfather for many years and leaving home at 15 and pretty much been on my own since then. But just creating a beautiful life here in California where all of my dreams are coming true. And I attribute that to my experience and my journeys with plant medicine. And so let's just touch on what has transpired from the time when you were a young girl. I don't know if you were adolescent or teenager when you started having an addiction issue and how, because part of this also is trauma, but then the trauma leads to addiction. And so Nicole had an addiction that she dealt with for many, many years. Oh, yeah. How could I forget that? No, no. Well, it was consumed pretty much for 30 plus years with bulimia and body dysmorphia. And again, the plant medicine has helped in tremendous. Ways. And there are thousands of women. I don't know the numbers, but I might want to put a link to the numbers, something in the show notes about bulimia, because I had heard of it. And when I met Nicole, I was kind of thinking before when I was talking about how we came together and the things we had in common, but during the time, a lot of this time in the early years when I knew my friend here, Nicole, she was struggling hardcore with this. She had just moved to California. She was on her healing journey just starting out. And I feel like she knew already that she wanted, she was starting her search and intuitively on her path to heal through this stuff. And I of course wasn't an expert, and I had heard of bulimia and stuff, but I just tried to be as supportive as possible as a friend, it was really difficult to watch your friend. Anytime you have a loved one or somebody close to you that has an addiction, whatever it is, you want to be able to help. But a lot of times we can't help. And Nicole was really like, it was good that you didn't have kids distracting you or you could just focus on yourself. And so in the town that we lived in, there were a lot of conscious people, a lot of people waking up and on their own healing journeys. And so we were very blessed to have lots of access to different types of plant medicine that many people maybe can't have in this country or have to go to another country to get. So just being consumed with this eating disorder, it is all consuming and only sharing with the select few my story and meeting an angel who suggested ayahuasca, and I had no idea about these amazing magical plant medicines. And I was open to receive anything as I was just so tired of just living. It wasn't my best life, definitely apart from being my best life and just wanting to just desiring to live and to just, and live in the highest way that I could and be free from that. Because you knew it was to be free from the bulimia because it was like I was in this prison. So we traveled a bit to the Bay Area, and I sat with Ayahuasca for the first time. And if you're familiar out there with ayahuasca is it's about purging or they say the purging is not getting not sick, but you're getting well is you're just going to purge yourself of all that's not serving you. And I remember sitting and being very nervous as I am right now. This is my very first podcast. I was in my very first Ayahuasca circle, healing circle. How many people were. There? And there were about 12 people in this beautiful setting in Western Marin. And it had my first cup of teas. It served in tea form. And I was sitting there and I recall raising my hand requesting a bigger bucket because they give you this very small bucket to perge, get well in. I have big ones. No, we just have little ones. And it was just like, oh, this bucket is not big enough. I was like, God, I felt like I could projectile vomit around the world. I was just like, okay, I'm going to go of all that hasn't been serving. Me. Yeah, it's like you think of negative energy just coming out of your unstuck cells and wherever in your body, right? It's. A trip. Although that evening I did not purge once true, an actual physical purge of vomiting. I purged through tears. I cried in ocean or maybe oceans of tears that night, which was quite powerful. That's almost better in a way. Would you rather throw up or be crying? But it's a good release. Oh, it was the greatest release and one of the biggest releases of my life because I hadn't done any kind of therapy or maybe therapy for very small amounts of time. But for whatever reason, I'm like, this is not serving me. And I believe that was step one of just releasing, releasing. And it was soon intense to say the least, but very beautiful and magical and just leaving there with a sense of being lighter and of a sense of, yeah, perhaps I can overcome. It did give me hope. Yeah, it gave me hope. So much hope. And we were so excited. I was with two friends that we wanted to celebrate. It was all of our first time, and we all had our own journey in our own way, but it was very powerful for all of us. So we went to the beach and we were going to dance and just celebrate. And as we are leaving the van to go to the beach, I get a phone call from my mother whom I had visited in my dream state that night on the medicine. And I forgave her. And this is the very first time that she's ever asked me if my stepfather, whom accused me was inappropriate with me because I forgave her for allowing this to happen. And I just mentioning this because this is the power of that plant medicine is it works on a psychic level. It's powerful. And at that moment, I just could not create any more suffering in the world as I felt that I had just let it all go. So I said no, and I hung up and I went to celebrate. And then I shared with her at a later time Regarding that. That was a good decision. But I have to say my other journeys with that particular plant medicine, ayahuasca, ayahuasca for complete hell, it wasn't my medicine. I felt every time I drank that medicine after that night, I just felt like I was being ripped inside out, physically, mentally, spiritually. So. Somehow I was wanting to purge myself of the purging, but that was not my medicine. But for some people, it's their medicine. Absolute magical stories I've. Heard. Yeah. I don't know if I asked you this before, was there, and the other times there was four or five other times you did it after that. Yeah. I know the first time you actually weren't able to purge vomiting and the other ones, did that ever happen? It did. Okay. Yeah, it did. But it just felt, again, it just all hurt. I mean, all of it, it's too much. I mean, I've thrown out thousands of times in my life, but it was just too much. I just could not. I mean, it kind of makes sense, I guess, in some ways. So it's really good that there's not just one plant medicine that can help you in these deep ways. We're actually at the end of this. I'm sure you may have already seen, if you've seen in what I've written or the notes that we're going to touch on MDMA, but not today. But at the end, we may just touch a little bit if we have time, but that is another, I'll call it a plant medicine. You can get more pure forms. Of course, there's forms that aren't as pure out there, so you really do have to be careful, such a popular drug. But there are pure forms that come from plants that are harder to find, but that really heal deeper than anything else. And I know Nicole and I both agree on this, and Nicole has, we were talking about how she has really felt like she's been helped from that kind of medicine so deeply. Absolutely. Yeah. And so we're not going to talk about that today, but going on from Ayahuasca after that, Nicole, I don't know, there's kind of a timeline here, but these bunch of Ayahuasca journeys and then going into the IBO gain. Correct. What was kind of the time period? Was that within a 10 year period where you did all of that, or was it. Longer? Probably within five. Oh, it was all within five years. I would say. After I tried still struggling much and just maybe even getting worse with the bulimia. At that point, after doing ayahuasca that many times. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't my medicine. So just going deeper into research and just what else is there? What else is there out there? What medicine? Someone had mentioned the or Ibogaine, which is a plant medicine from Africa. I traveled to Costa Rica to Lake AAU and little retreat center down there with the most beautiful angels facilitating. Yeah. And then when you were there, I remember when you did that and there was this little thing that you had on your arm or something too. Remember that. Was that from the frog medicine? It was the toad. Was that the same place? No. Oh, that was different. Well, he did the fraud medicine was the bofu. Yeah, but was that at the same place? Yes. Okay. Yes. Yeah. So this is something I have never done. I had heard about it and I thought it was great that Nicole was doing it. Of course, she's searching for answers and to heal from this trauma and from her addiction and this disease that is very hard to overcome of any of you that know if you have an addiction, how hard it is. I mean, some of us, and I can speak from my partner as well, because he also has said he wants to be a guest on the podcast. He is a recovering addict, and I saw him go through what he went through and how hard it was. So what happened when you went down to Costa Rica and you were by yourself, right? Correct. And such a brave journey to go there and just trusting intuitively. Did you know anybody else that had done the medicine or you just did some. Research? I just did some research. And just how this medicine is used to treat addictions, opioid, alcoholism. Can you just discuss a little bit of what happened, how you take the medicine, if it lasts a day or if you have to do prep work with ayahuasca, you have to do a little bit of prep work to make sure your body is purged and clean beforehand. Really clear, clean diet. I think I arrived just like five days in total. Day one was just getting acclimated, just meeting the other participants and the facilitators. Was it done in a group? It. Sounded like it was separate when you. Oh, well, when we actually sat with the medicine, it was done in a group. We each had a bed. Okay. Yeah. Nice and cozy spot. And then the second day we went out, we had to actually go into town to a medical clinic to make sure that, make sure, yeah, that's right, everything was right. Check, heartbeat, vitals, all of that. It can be very dangerous for some, So you must be in good physical condition. And then on the third day, the morning of one of the facilitators handed me an egg. This was the day that we were going to do the medicine. So he handed me an egg and asked me if I could go to the lake to give this egg as an offering, which I did. I went down, it was beautiful lake a nobody around in sight. So I just got naked with my egg and I swam, and I swam, and I dropped the egg with the intention and with the gratitude, thank you for this medicine, and may I receive just what I was needing? May please just send me free from all. That's not serving me. I'm so tired. So pretty much that was my in intention, was just getting so much thanks, just being around this in nature. It's so beautiful just there. And it was my first time there, and I'm just like, wow. And just floating on my back and just in that silence when you're underwater and just you're peace, it's magical and feeling good and feeling happy and just positive going into it, not being scared at all as some people are. But I was excited because I'm just like, wow, maybe this is it. This is the magic pill, Which it was taken in pill form. And we sat down and they had to put the little monitor on us too. They were very professional, very clean, very warm, very welcoming, just very sweet facilitators. And yeah, just started my journey that evening after dropping the egg and giving thanks. And I was off. And we were off. And. Do you want to discuss that or do you. Sure. At first it was pretty scary. I mean, I was there and there was this man, he was underground, a wooden cart, what do you call that? A train thing? Train thing. But it was not a train, it was just a single cart. And it was like this Mayan man. He was like, I'm going to get you. It was like the coal mining days. Yeah, the coal mining. He is like, I'm going to get you, bitch. I'm coming for you, bitch, I'm going to get you. And I was like, I was really scared, but then I'm just like, no, thank you. As soon as you did that, you're. Not coming me for. Yes, you're not. I'm not going to allow you to come into my space, into my energy. This is about healing. No more coming for me. It's like nobody's coming for me except for my angels. And then with this medicine, it's a dream state. So it's like the dream started with me going back to my childhood, just where I was free and happy before the trauma, just playing in the playground and just smiling and laughing, which brought me great joy. And then, as I had stated earlier, I did become pregnant in a very young age, and I hid the pregnancy as I was so afraid to share with anyone. Yeah. So did that come up? That did come up. That did come up because my birth story, I was all alone in my bed going through labor, screaming in my pillow, being so afraid, even still not being able to share this with anyone. So the whole town found out, and I was shamed, kind of like the scarlet letter. It was like sex or slut, shamed from the adults to the kids, to even my own mother. Anyway, going back to the dream, my journey on Ibogaine Iboga, I was able to go to that little girl. I was able to be there for her in how she was feeling in that bed, and to comfort her and to let her know that she was not alone. And somehow we ended back in the lake, in this dream, the lake where I dropped the egg earlier, and given Mark had no idea. Nobody knew my backstory, but I had this egg, dropped it in the middle of the lake. And during my medicine journey, I landed back in this lake and I gave birth to my baby boy and this, but it was like a beautiful birth. It was the most beautiful water birth. It wasn't a traumatizing experience. It wasn't. Traumatizing. So you got to redo it. I got to redo it. And as I'm giving birth in this most beautiful lake, there were at least the sky was full of angels. And all of these blessings, just these sparkles of light were just falling upon us. And it was magical. It was the most beautiful and magical experience of my life. And it was the greatest gift that I was able to give to myself, which turned the most traumatic experience in my life into the most beautiful experience of my life. And then after that, I was able to teleport to this tiny town that I grew up in. And I forgive every single person that ever spoke poorly of me, that ever shamed me, that bullied me. And yeah, it was powerful. That's very. Powerful. It was powerful. It was liberating. It was like, woo. Yeah. Did you know why you were able to do that? Because that can be very hard for people to forgive. And was it that you knew that it wasn't their fault? How people are, they're fucked up themselves. And it's like, you know what? It's not. Take it personal. You are like, this isn't about me. I'm not going to take any of this on. That's their stuff. And I'm just giving it back to them and. Not, it was huge and kind of philes, unbroken chain. What is it? Key Forgiveness is the key to every door. And it's so true. I mean, even if you're not forgiving for the sake of them, it's for your own personal power. That's. Why we always must forgive. And what you're just saying too, it's the key to every door. So that's interesting. Right? That's such a good lyric. Did he make that lyric? Yes. Is that're quoting Phil Les. Rest in peace. Phil in peace. I'm sure you are. You're free. Is that you? You were saying before, and we can segue into this, is that it's lifting off this burden that so many of us carry, and it's just such a freedom to be able to do that, because it's like releasing, that's such a huge release. It's not feeling all that purging release, and that's like a beautiful release. Oh, it's beautiful. Just being able to go to that place, to go through all those steps. You're holding your authentic self, your person that you are really deep down underneath all the trauma. And I don't know if that happened in order. You saw her first, and then you're seeing the little girl that went through the trauma and holding her and being like, it's okay. And giving her love that she needed at that time, because that's what you needed support. I mean, I lived the whole nine months that I was pregnant, just in this state of terror and fear and just denial too, really. This can't be, I'm not, I'm not. But there was no denying it. But then just still being so frightened and scared and just, there was absolutely no one that I could share this with. That's because there wasn't a loving, supportive family. The family systems around you. Yeah. And so with the iboga Ibogaine medicine, you were able to go through really what is a truly therapeutic process, it sounds like? Absolutely. All the way to the forgiveness, to the forgiveness, to the turning the most, as I said, traumatic experience. Experience of my life into the most beautiful experience of my life. And then the angels and the blessings. And then being able to transport tele transport. I mean, it's quite phenomenal what this medicine and where we can go. And just being able to forgive from. Costa Rica to Pennsylvania. But then after all that though, because a lot of demons out there too that don't want us to be. Well. That's true. Because then I fell back into this spiral that I thought the facilitators were whispering that she doesn't belong here. Oh, her clothes are too nice. She shouldn't have received a discount or this or that. And we should kick her. Because everyone in my school, as I said, the students, the teachers. Whisper, whisper. And I'm like, no, no, that's trauma. But actually hearing. So those are my demons because there're our demons. There's darkness, there's life, and they can try. They want to take away your power. They want to take away your peace. They want to take your beauty. It was like, no, thank you. But just struggling with that. And that's something that came up in the introspection phase afterwards of the medicine and talking with my facilitators, and they're like, absolutely not, But that. Was part of it. That was all part of it. There's dark, there's ugly, there's ebbs, there's flows. Yeah. This is it. But then I recall also, it was the day because part of their healing process was using the bofu just afterwards, the day after, just kind of to integrate, which is a magical. Medicine. That's from the. Frog. That's from the frog. And remember smoking that, taking a hit, laying down on the ground and just becoming one with the earth, and just knowing how powerful we are. We're so powerful. We are so connected. There's so much magic. There's so much beauty in this life. We just need to open our hearts to receive it. To receive it. And that's another podcast. Yes. All these. Magical stories. I know. Oh, I know. Wow. And we did the sweat lodge as well, just to sweat it all out after. That. After the bofu. And that night, we were at the lake, and we weren't, we're not on psychedelics anymore, but something exploded in the lake. And I thought it was a little alone, but someone's like, did you see that? It was like an oid? I don't know. Maybe just a reminder is just like, take this with you. This is all real. Magic can happen even without psychedelics. Ethnos. Yeah, it's true. You just have to be tapped. In. And sometimes plant medicine can open us up enough to where we can connect more with nature. And so just remembering that how important it is to keep that connection. So after doing that medicine, which how many years ago was that now? Seven. So I know that that helped you more than doing the ayahuasca. And I know it was still a journey, and you still had some work to do after that, but I know that you were maybe after that more. But we come from a cannabis background in the town that we met, and that's how we met in the cannabis industry. And so Nicole, I think when you first came to California, I mean you were probably maybe smoking some cannabis then and stuff, or No, not at all. Okay. No. Okay. I thought maybe paranoid. I mean, you had tried it before Back back. No, absolutely. But I feel like, yeah, so that's what I'm remembering is that you weren't really experiencing the cannabis, the, what do I want to say? You weren't really dabbling in cannabis as a medicine so much. It was more we had work that we helped in the cannabis industry. But then I remember from what I recall in the last several years, that you've become more open to cannabis as a medicine because it's so easy to access. And really, I don't know if there was a time you remember where you started having experiences where you're like, this is actually helping me with my disease and with my addiction. It was helping me. It still does help me. Smoking cannabis or eating cannabis just makes me more, it makes me more conscious of how I am treating myself, whether it be through my thoughts or my actions. Yeah, it's been helping me sleep somewhat sometimes. Sometimes if it's the right variety, if it's the right variety. But yeah, I think that intro spectrum, right? Just more going deeper within. I just remember you. Yeah, I remember you telling me years ago, I was like, oh, so you're smoking now. Or I dunno if you were, maybe you were smoking before you started doing edibles. It's kind of like I stopped kind smoking as much, and I do edibles more now, where I was kind of afraid of edibles for a long time. So I remember you saying that it would help you with the bulimia and that you would be more self-aware. And so you wouldn't want to binge, you wouldn't want to hurt your body. I wouldn't want to, yeah. I was just kinder. I was more gentle with myself and more gentle with myself on cannabis. Not, yeah, just making me so focused on, okay. I mean, a lot of people get the munchies on cannabis. I don't. yeah, that I thought that was so odd. I thought that was so odd. I was like, what? You're not what you're like, it does the opposite. You're like, it was a suppressant. Or maybe like, yeah, that's not going to serve me. Yeah. Eating. That's not going to serve me. Although it might make me feel better. And they say, bulimia, Louise Hay. Actually, she'll refer the root cause of all diseases. Numb is self-hatred. Just like, oh, binging. You're just stuck yourself numb to numb something with self hatred. This is numbing. Whereas on cannabis, I was more self-loving to myself and not wanting to hurt myself. And again, just being so more gentle. That's super cool planned medicine. And I give thanks in always for. Cannabis. Yeah. And we have such great access. I mean, we've been very blessed for many years to have such great access right here in California. And so it is such a blessing to have that medicine for so many people. And now what's happening is that other ethno plants like ayahuasca too, but psychedelics like LSD and psilocybin and MDMA even and ketamine, which I'm not going to get into that at all, but these medicines, these ethni gens are becoming more widespread. There's scientific research how it helps people, and it is going to become more and more available and more legal, already legal in some places in California, in Oregon and Colorado. And that's kind of following after cannabis. It's like cannabis has been like the model, right? Never should have been illegal, ever. The gateway. It's the gateway to other good things that will help this planet heal if we have time to do it. So yeah, we're just going to leave today's episode with this. There is so much to talk about here. And then we do want to do another episode in a few months on MDMA, because we both have experience with that, and I would love to discuss more of that with you. So thank you so much for listening today. This has been awesome. Thank you, Nicole, for being here. You had a beautiful share. Thank you for receiving these so. Sweetly and many happy days to all of you. Love and light. Yes, love and light. Bye now.